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Should there be a Release 5 of my asy-code?

Since I get no response (for previous release) from anybody but C&K I do not know if you guys (and girls) want another release.

I hope to get feedback through tweaky from my fellow users of Kyma. Please give me new fresh idea's to implement and other ways of looking at my own work. Maybe you could make a (small) demo with my microsounds used in it, this can give a very different perspective sometimes.-- ChristiaanGelauff - 24 Nov 2006

From this release onwards I will distribute all asy-code from my own website with personal registration. -- ChristiaanGelauff - 24 Mar 2007

My site is up and running at http://www.christiaangelauff.nl. -- ChristiaanGelauff - 08 May 2007 - 29 May 2007

CAG Asy Release 5 is no longer available!

What is cooking?

Release 5 is developed and the following modules are created:

New !!! The module table contains .mp3 demo's !!!

Module name Description
Channeller1 A channeller that allows you to select left or right input with a control value, very handy.
Constant4 A simple way (radius and angle) of defining a constant vector/complex number.
CmplxMultiply1 A Product prototype for multiplying complex number signals. It can make a linear frequency shift to complex input sounds with a twiddle. Sounds like single side band modulation. DemoCmplxMultiply.mp3
CmplxRM1 This is a complex number recursive modulator. It can make a recursive frequency shift to complex input sounds. It can changes the input sound color very dramatically, from a single harmonic to a fully filled harmonic spectrum. Sounds very FM like. DemoCmplxRM.mp3 DemoSpeechInCmplxRM.mp3
CmplxLPBP1 Yes!! another phat stereo 2nd order lowpass/Bandpass (highpass and notch) filter using complex number techniques. Cutoff is controlled on audio rate! DemoCmplxLP.mp3 BattleOfCmplxBP.mp3
Twiddle4 Much like Twiddle1 with build-in envelope, without LUT and pitch in a parameter field. Very usefull as inputs to CmplxRM1?. DemoCmplxRM.mp3
Twiddle5 Another fine twiddle with phase distortion in a feedback manner. Sounds really cool. DemoTwiddle5pair.mp3
ADSR1 Stereo Kyma ADSR
ASR1 Stereo Kyma AR
DSR1 Stereo Decay Sustain Release envelope
ADR1 Stereo single shot ADSR1 (without the S)
AR1 Stereo single shot ASR1
OnDecay1 Stereo single shot On and Decay(or Release)
Decay1 Stereo single shot Decay (or Release)
UnMuteMixer A stereo mixer that can handle up to 8 inputs. It has a volume fader and a soft mute on every channel. Every channel has its own AR envelope inside. The enabling by UnMuting can be synced to a BPM trigger. This sound is made on special request for DavidMoss. The sync to BPM I made for TaylorDeupree.
2ndFIR Just a stereo 2nd order FIR, for making notches or adjustable 0,1 to 2T sample delays.
1T Stereo 1 sample delay
Resonator1a,b,c,d Four configuration of a stereo HarmonicResonator with a 1st order LP filter in the feedback loop. Cross feedbacks are also possible. Comb filtering is also included. The sound from EckardVossas inspired me for this. DemoResonator1d.mp3
LFO1 A very neat stereo LFO with five different build in waveforms: Sine, Saw, Square, Triangle and random. Every LFO (left = 1, right = 2) can be phase delayed/shifted,time warped, enveloped, DC offsetted etc. The LFO's can be combine in several manners, mixing or multiplied etc only working possitive scale, nn-scale or full scale. In short: THE LFO you have always wanted! EckardVossas thanks again for your inspiration.
MultiEnv1 A stereo multi envelope generator
VCA1 A simple way of applying stereo envelopes to your sounds, with smart Absolute and Squared switch to enable to use of a twiddle for autopanning
VCA2 For those who want more control over the autopanning or who want modulation plus enveloping use the more advanced version
WrapAdd Use this as adder of different indexes going to a WaveTable1, it enables nice waveform distortions
Chorus1 A flanger/chorus you have not heard in Kyma! Build from a stereo variable delayline with two feedbacks. DemoChorus.mp3

For more information about modules see my website!

Can you really wait to get started? -- ChristiaanGelauff - 22 Feb 2007

The UnMuteDJ Demo song!

This is a Live studio recording of the UnMuteDJ example delivered with CAG Asy Release 5. The recording is afterwards mastered with another Kyma sound (also example). About 22 licks run in parallel and are UnMuted by me in time. Some extra faders/parameters are added for effects like phasing, pingpong-delay, aliasing, lp-filtering and send to (external) reverb. Beat me if you can! DemoUnMuteDJ.mp3 -- ChristiaanGelauff - 19 May 2007

Give me your input, feedback or comments

I used CAG: to inserted my comments/brainstorm paragraphs in between your texts. -- ChristiaanGelauff - 26 Nov 2006

Place you stuff below:

Pre module table responses (early)

This page is getting too large, so I have moved the early responses to a different page: CAGAsyRelease5PreModuleTableDiscussions. Please do read them, they are very interesting.

My general feeling is that a lot of you have a more highlevel problem, that is normally not solved in microsounds. High level for me means combining prototype sounds and writing the correct expressions. I generally do not have a problem with expressions, however Small/CapyTalk syntax still pisses me of several times. Thanks for the feedback guys!

-- ChristiaanGelauff - 06 Dec 2006 comments in between 11 Dec 2006

Post module table responses (late)

Very important discussion with Camille!

This page is getting too large for this discusion, I have moved it to a different page: CamilleCAGAsyRelease5Discussion. Please read futher.

Hi, I just realised that you have inserted the UnMuteMixer? into the list for version 5. CAG: yes and it just works perfect! I appreciate that you took the time to do this. Also lets hear a big hurrah for symsound with the latest update running multiple microsounds!!!

RE: V5 I noticed the stereo envelopes, these sound just like what I'm looking for to control a granular synth sound. As for the CmplxRM1?, personally I can't wait for CAGV5 ;)

-- DavidMoss - 26 Feb 2007

This microsound collection sounds really useful - I hadn't come across it before, don't really know why - Christiaan, how are we supposed to be able to get access to the CAG V5 ? and when do you think it will be ready?

-- CristianVogel - 01 Mar 2007

I can guess why you have missed it: it was never promoted (was it every mentioned in 8th nerve C+K?)! I hope this page is getting some more attention by making it more clear and complete. Did you already had a play with the other releases 1,2,3 and 4? They are still downloadable from this site (CAGAsyReleases). I suggest you start with those. Also in the other releases I have already very interesting sounds.

When release 5 is done is not clear yet. All prototypes are made, but I do not have great examples yet and also not a demo song as with previous releases. I also need to setup my own site for distribution.

I hoped, by now I had some cooperation with symbolic (C+K) to not have to do everything myself. That wish is not really getting a solid basis due to ... also from the users (of my sounds) I get little feedback or help. Next to this all, I am also helping Harm Visser with his new sound library of instruments for Kyma. This is really nice (see http://www.hvsynthdesign.com)!

But: Why should I make my sounds available to you? First I would like to see your opinion expressed here on tweaky about previous releases! Second I would like to see a request for a sound you always wanted to have in Kyma (what prototype is it your missing, not user interface related). When you get started you can also answere my last question on CreateEMUZ ... it could be there is no answere.

-- ChristiaanGelauff - 02 Mar 2007

Off the top of my head... A sequencer that has control signal output flowing to the right - the current sequencers send data to the sounds on the left of sound-structure - I would like to have multiple sequencers running and be able to select between them - this is difficult as it is now, I have found a way to do it using eventValue generators, but it could be so much simpler.... also a stereo widener/imager prototype, a MUX 8 input multi crossfading mixer, another stereo reverb option, a stereo soft clipper, 2nd and 3rd order stereo harmonic distortion, a MS equaliser ...

I would rather evaluate your latest version, as it is where you are now at. There's no reason why you should share your work with me, but if you want to know that the results of your hardwork are actually being applied and enjoyed , you will have to make it available somehow. If you want to charge money for it, thats fine, but make it a reasonable price, and a good method of easy payment and delivery. I don't think its going to make you rich, but you can cerainly feel proud of what you have created.... !

-- CristianVogel - 12 Mar 2007

Sequencing, YES that is also a thing I would like to have. I always go back to Logic for sequencing.

Can I conclude you are able to create EventVariable containing expressions? I think you can be an asset to many of us, because the EventVariable stuff is far from simple. My envelopes and LFO1 are filled with them. I really hate them, totally unclear when what is evaluated.

Stereo widener/imager prototype is something to enhance a stereo recording? This can be simple or very complex...(give some more specifications).

A MUX 8 input multi crossfading mixer can be made from the UnMuteMixer? (assembler code) it will need a different wrapper class. How importent is this for you? Also here, give some more specs.

Stereo Reverb, see CamilleCAGAsyRelease5Discussion.

Stereo soft clipper, (again it depends on what this means to you) but my AddHardLimit from CAG Asy Release 1 has this ability or Distortion5+6 from CAG Asy Release 4. All are stereo and the softknee range in the AddHardLimit prototype can be set. There is however no dynamic behaviour as can be found in other limiters!

2nd and 3rd order stereo harmonic distortion, yes that would be nice, something for a future release.

MS equaliser, MS as in MS stereo? What for Equaliser for Mid and Side ?? More specs please..

My goal is to get rich ... with KNOWLEDGE! Please do solve the puzzle ... respond on the text above and share your knowledge.

-- ChristiaanGelauff - 12 Mar 2007

The MS Equaliser, yes, allows you to EQ the Mid band and Side band seperately - check out the DBX Quantum, which has MS dynamics and EQ.

-- CristianVogel - 15 Mar 2007

I have checked the specs for the DBX Quantum. The MS EQ option I did not read anywhere. I believe it is not realistic to expect that any of us can program/patch a mastering device in his bedroom on the Capybara like the DBX Quantum. I do not even want to try. To make the basic parts needed for creating such a mastering tool is however more feasible.

-- ChristiaanGelauff - 16 Mar 2007

JesusGestoso and PeteJohnston have each developed MS encoder/decoder Sounds that you can find on Share.Sounds under Effects Processing. Search for MidSide or MSDecoder. Once you have Mid and Side as separate signals, you could send those signals through separate GraphicEQs.

-- CarlaScaletti - 16 Mar 2007

I have owned the DBX Quantum for nearly 9 years now, and it definitely has MS EQ and dynamics. A powerful concept, but the GUI is so small and unintuitive that is a drag to explore this very interesting tool.

I think a mastering tool like the DBX Quantum is very possible to build in Kyma - also, check out the Izotope Ozone 3 plug in - a suite for mastering. The EQ could be any of the fantastic designs already made in Kyma, and the MS i now possible ( to explore MS Stereo Shuffler/widening ) - Also dynamics options and loudness maximisers aplenty, especially with the CAGasy and McClain? microsounds - Each user that is interested , could build there own custom digital mastering rig, and this is something that can mark you out from the competition in the hyper-competitive world of professional mastering.

For a custom mastering rig to be useful, we need a diskplayer, that can dynamically drop into a 24bit soundfile from disk, a specific time index, or to jump to markers within a soundfile - this is important for mastering type work...

Also, some kind of dithering ideas too - dithering is an art , the art of noise if you like (sic) ... How could dither be implemented as a Kyma sound?

-- CristianVogel - 07 Apr 2007

Oke, I just could not find this MS EQ and dynamics in the spec text. I do really have an idea how this can work and even be very nice to have, but good mastering tools are very difficult to make. Since I am not in the mastering myself it is also very difficult to judge what sounds good. I do believe one can build quite a lot in Kyma. Most likely I am not the perfect person to create mastering stuff, I can build you the parts used for creating mastering tools (hower fft based tooling is very difficult to build in Kyma, some mastering tools operate in the frequency domain).

You write: "dithering is an art". I really do know quite a lot about this, since I have been a developer on MPEG audio decoders/encoders. Dither I already implemented in CAG Asy Release 1 it is called TPDFNoise. It is mono noise with a trianglar power distribution function, which is good enough for dithering. Also in CAG Asy Release 1 I used it in the BitReduction module. This module also has 1st order noise shaping. It is however mono, my first microsound and not well documented (even not for myself). With correct settings in this Sound you will see that 4 bits can already sound like music.

-- ChristiaanGelauff - 07 Apr 2007

I'm not at the studio today , so I can't check, but is your bit reduction module stereo? Can you describe how it reduces the bits using your TPDFNoise? Is it a multiplication? Maybe it could be useful to update this sound, so that we can have a choice of different noise-shaping, and make a realtime dithering sound in Kyma. Sometimes, I use outboard dithering to 15bits on a certain analog unit, because of the way it sounds ...

Yesterday, I was working on a stereo enhancer, using Jesus and Pete's MS encoder and decoder - I was using your Distortion5 and Distortion1 sound on the sideband , and Distortion5 on the midband, getting some interesting results - a wider, more present stereo field, and loudness - I have been careful to adjust the input gain into the distortion modules, attenuating down before hitting the softClipper, to control the ammount of distortion. This, for example sounded good, but I am not confident on applying it to a client's audiofiles, because I have no idea what is happening to the phase relations of the audio in the softClipper - Any good mastering tool has to maintain or increase apparent headroom, and improve or maintain phase-relationships, whilst fixing problems, and generally enhancing the smoothness and listenability of the raw mixes.

I believe that Kyma has enough sample rate and bit resolution to be up there with the most quality conscious (and expensive) digital mastering tools ( Weiss , Z-Systems , Digital Domain KStereo etc )

-- CristianVogel - 08 Apr 2007

Too bad, the BitReduction is mono. Your question: "Can you describe how it reduces the bits using your TPDFNoise? Is it a multiplication?" I do not understand. Maybe you made a typo or you have heard about the terms and can not link their usage. I got most the information for this module out of articels in the AES journal. I can give you the journal numbers (if you can read these horrible articals). If you would like me to explain this in more simple story, maybe I should make a new topic in Learn.Glossary about quantization...

"Different noise shaping" you want all or nothing :), "realtime dithering sound" how can this be non-realtime, btw TPDFNoise = realtime generated dither?, "I use outboard dithering to 15bits on a certain analog unit, because of the way it sounds ..." this is explainable. Making good quality noise (what is this?) is not easy. "phase relations of the audio in the softClipper" it is linear phase. It is non-linear distortion only, no filtering involved. Do you not use a phase meter of some kind to check you mastered audio? It would be a simple check then.

Cristian you get 10 credits for selling your wish for a mastering tool! It does not make it easy however. -- ChristiaanGelauff - 10 Apr 2007

Your mp3 demos are tantalizing! I especially like the way the Chorus and complex modulation sounds. Keep up the great work. I'm looking forward to this release very much. CAG: Thanks!

-- MatthewCarpenter - 10 Apr 2007

Hi CAG. How is it going on the CAGAsyRelease5? When do you think it might be ready for download? -- CristianVogel - 14 May 2007

It is ready for download! -- ChristiaanGelauff - 29 May 2007

Christian Vogel writes above: "A sequencer that has control signal output flowing to the right". One way to accomplish this in Kyma is to change the control information into audio, and a simple example is to change a MIDI sequence into an audio envelope. I use a Smalltalk program under the Sample Editor to read a MIDI sequence and produce a wavetable that has the note values of the sequence represented as an amplitude envelope. I can then use this wavetable in an oscillator or function generator and have the control information "flowing to the right". (I have posted an example of the Smalltalk code to do this on this Wiki.) I do wish that it were possible to read control events from a MIDI file in Smalltalk; I am presently only able to do this trick with MIDI notes.

-- LuddyHarrison - 18 Sep 2007

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